Herding Code

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Nate Kohari? Kanban Boards? Continuous Improvement? Zen? Stop right there! We know what you’re thinking.  You already heard this episode about three weeks ago on that other podcast, right?  Well, think again, because this week on Herding Code, the guys pick up where that interview left off.  Listen in as Nate Kohari, the creator of Ninject, talks about the technical nuts and business bolts of his new startup. Find out why Nate choose to build his online product predominantly on a Microsoft stack, how the site is going to scale, how he processes payments, and much, much more, this week on Herding Code.

  • Kevin sets the tone of the show and notes that the guys are going to steer clear of the questions already addressed on a recent Hanselman show.  This talk will focus on technical and startup details.
  • Nate comments on why he build his application using the Microsoft stack.  After all, most startups don’t chose this path. 
  • The guys talk about multiple browser support, jQuery, jQuery Plugins, CSS and Firefox Add-ons.
  • Jon asks about architectural patterns.  Nate talks about ASP.NET MVC with the Spark View Engine.
  • Kevin asks about online payment integration? Was it painful?
  • Nate discusses hosting and scalability.
  • Scott K asks about the brains behind the operation and how her background may have inspired Zen’s UI and overall flow.
  • Kevin asks Nate for any “words of wisdom” for those thinking about launching a startup.
  • Kevin wraps up the show asking Nate about what’s to come with Ninject and Zen.

Zen Coupon Code: KAIZEN 
50% off the first month, last to the end of July.

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Herding Code 55: Nate Kohari brings Your Moment of Zen

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In this corner, Microsoft Developer Evangelist and author, G. Andrew Duthie. In the other corner, C# MVP, ASP Insider and Open Space Technology facilitator, Alan Stevens. This week, G. Andrew Duthie and Alan Stevens bring their recent “Real Software Development vs Microsoft Bubble Development” Twitter debate to Herding Code. It’s all the open and honest, fun-loving, snarky banter without the 140 character limit.

  • Kevin kicks off the show by announcing our two fighters. Ding. Ding.
  • Alan throws the first punch – He likes Herding Code because it’s about real software development rather than development in the Microsoft bubble.  It’s about the tool users rather than the tool builders and it’s about honest feedback.
  • Andrew jabs back – He likes the stories from the trenches but he feels more credit must be given to the folks at Microsoft who are doing the right thing. In other words, don’t always assume the worst and snark about it.
  • Scott K keeps both fighters on their toes – First taking jabs at Alan because some DevDiv developers dogfood Microsoft’s stuff (e.g. Visual Studio 2010 and .NET 4.0) and then lands a sucker punch on Andrew noting Entity Framework is developing in the dark.  Who could have seen that punch coming?
  • The fight continues with talk about general disgust in drag and drop demos, the role of the Developer Evangelist, Microsoft’s goals and constraints, and the need for candid feedback.
  • If you missed the Twitter exchange, you will definitely want to listen in as The Alan Stevens vs G. Andrew Duthie Debate continues this week on Herding Code.

Show Links:

Note: Ward Bell transcribed a part of the discussion on drag’n'drop demos here.

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Herding Code 52: The Alan Stevens and G. Andrew Duthie Debate Continues

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This week the guys talk to Damien Guard, a developer working on LINQ to SQL and Entity Framework. After discussing data access for a while, they talk about the programming font Damien publishes, Envy Code R.

  • Damien assures us that LINQ To SQL is not at all dead and talks about some of the new features in LINQ To SQL 4.
  • Damien discusses the T4 templates in EF/VS2010 as well as the LINQ to SQL T4 templates he’s released on CodePlex as L2ST4.
  • New features in EF 4 (LINQ operators, ObjectSet)
  • Additional LINQ To SQL mocking with ITable<T>
  • Some general discussion of query performance optimization in L2S and EF, including some enhancements in v4.
  • Code-only configuration to enable fluent configuration for EF
  • Kevin compares the code-only configuration to Fluent NHibernate
  • K Scott asks about how code-only configuration would enable TDD with EFF
  • Damien talks about the challenges of TDD and DDD when developing a framework
  • Jon asks the “Should L2S be on CodePlex” question
  • Damien mentions Matt Warren’s LINQ IQueryable Toolkit
  • Jon asks about the experience and improvements to migration from L2S to EF
  • K Scott asks about common L2S mistakes
  • Jon asks about POCO support in EF
  • Kevin bemoans the lack of support for refreshing a L2S model when your schema changes
  • The talk shifts over to the programming font Damien designed, Envy Code R
  • Damien explains the intricacies of TrueType, bitmap fonts and hinting
  • Discussion of font editing software, from FontLab ($500) to FontForge (free, open source), and Microsoft Visual TrueType (free, weird license agreement which must be faxed in)
  • Damien’s crazy font hack to get italic comments in Visual Studio
  • Jon asks about the new typography features in Windows 7, including the new DirectWrite API
  • Damien prefers Mac font rendering for quick glances, Windows for long use
  • Discussion of how fonts affect eyestrain
  • Jon talks about font rendering on Kindle and how he’s using it as an RSS aggregator

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Herding Code 50: Damien Guard on LINQ to SQL, Entity Framework, and Fontography

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Have you binged, bunged or banged using Microsoft’s Bing? Any idea the type of questions you should feed Wolfram|Alpha? This week on Herding Code, the guys talk about “new search things that have happened upon the Intertubes.” Are you planning to catch the Google Wave? Hear the cast’s thoughts on Google Wave and much more in this week’s Lightning Round.

  • Jon digs into the Bing’s core feature list and shares that he is generally impressed with the specialty searches around travel, health, traffic, images, shopping and maps.
  • When it comes to search, the guys ask if Microsoft can really complete with Google. And does it really matter?
  • Scott K talks about Microsoft rebranding and questions what Microsoft is doing with its web properties? He compares Microsoft to Google which does everything web-based. Kevin chimes in and state that he doesn’t use a single Microsoft online property and Microsoft just doesn’t have a good story for this space.
  • The guys discuss usability features in Bing – specifically image and video search, search history and preferences.
  • K Scott brings up Bing’s nice use of Silverlight and speak to tweets stating Bing is Microsoft’s way of tricking you into installing the Silverlight plugin.
  • Jon and Scott K talk about conspiracy theories.
  • Jon kicks off a conversation about Wolfram|Alpha and shares how you can ask just about anything and you will even get an answer if you know exactly how to phrase the question.
  • Kevin states that calling Wolfram|Alpha a search engine is a misnomer. Really, it’s a computational knowledge engine made for academics by academics.
  • Scott K calls out that anything claiming to be related to search must live up to Google. After all, you google information. You don’t altavista.
  • K Scott compares Wolfram|Alpha to a restaurant where the food’s not great but the atmosphere is pretty funky.
  • Jon and Scott K discuss search aggregators, explorer federated search and Kevin compares Wolfram|Alpha to Stack Overflow.
  • K Scott comments on search in general and how competition is a good thing. K Scott is not completely comfortable with Google dominating the market share. It’s the same uncomfortable feeling he had when Microsoft dominated the browser wars and look how that turned out. Take note!

Compliments of K Scott, another Lightning Round Strikes!

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Scott K’s Wolfram queries:
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
Do these pants make me look fat?

Jon’s Wolfram queries:
GDP of Moldovia divided by Ernest Goes to Camp box office?
Escape velocity of Saturn divided by top speed of a cheetah?
Population of Vatican City divided by the square root of the number of hours in a leap year?
How to cook a Welshman?

K Scot’s Wolfram queries:
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

Jon Udell’s Wolfram query:
(H1N1 Mexico Deaths / Mexico Cases) / (H1N1 US Deaths / US Cases)

Download / Listen:

Herding Code 49: Search with Bing and Wolfram Alpha

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This week on Herding Code, the guys speak with Dustin Campbell about Visual Studio 2010 Beta’s "super exciting" programming, debugging and extensibility features and the F# May CTP.

  • The show kicks off with Jon commenting about the evolution of Visual Studio. Dustin then takes us down memory lane sharing how Visual Studio has been torn down and stitched back together over the years – this time with a new WPF-based IDE and an impressive extensibility model.
  • K Scott notes that F# is now being shipped with Visual Studio 2010 and teases Dustin about working on Project Euler problems in F# with his wife. (There’s a hot dating tip for you.) Dustin squirms a little and then talks in more detail about the latest F# release and the many language refactorings.
  • Scott K asks if dynamic languages like IronRuby and IronPython are scheduled to be shipped with later versions of Visual Studio and Dustin suggests that those languages may not find benefit in doing so.
  • Scott K asks if Microsoft is trying to kill off the competition by introducing IDE features already provided by CodeRush and ReSharper?  Dustin shares that the new extensibility model within VS2010 actually promotes third-party development and refers to the DevExpresses, JetBrains and Whole Tomatoes of the world as “partners” rather than competition.
  • Scott K asks if rewriting the VS2010 editor in WPF will elevate WPF’s exposure inside and outside of Microsoft and effectively force the framework to continually improve. Scott K also asks if componentizing Visual Studio (think Perspectives in Eclipse) is something we might see in future bits.
  • Jon asks about team size and what it takes to build a product like Visual Studio at Microsoft.
  • Scott K calls out Parallel Programming, a highlighted new feature in VS2010, and Dustin drills into IDE support for parallel programming with parallel debugging windows and profiling views.
  • Kevin and Dustin talk about improved TDD support with features like "Generate From Usage."
  • The show wraps up with the guys beating Dustin up a bit with talk about Visual Studio issues such as the Add Reference Dialogue slowness and the "Visual Studio is busy" dialogue.

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Herding Code 48: Dustin Campbell on Visual Studio 2010

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This week on Herding Code, the guys speak with Joe Brinkman, Co-founder and Technical Fellow at DotNetNuke Corporation, about the ASP.NET MVC vs. Webforms debate, open source development, recent advancements in DotNetNuke and how to improve our industry and the community as a whole.

  • Joe explains that the Webforms vs. MVC debate boils down to a component based vs. object-oriented based approach to web development. Joe also shares that one shouldn’t only think about Webforms when doing the comparison. After all, let’s not forget web services, HTTPHandlers and HTTPModules are also part of the ASP.NET stack.
  • Joe speaks about the lack of a reusability model in ASP.NET MVC and Scott K offers solutions that go beyond mere copy and paste operations. Joe and Kevin explore how the absence of the component model in ASP.NET MVC is rescued by rich functionality packaged within the Javascript frameworks.
  • K Scott and Joe talk about core issues with Webform development. That is, ClientId management, .ASPX in URLs and maintainability concerns around Webform’s event model in the code behind and forcing statefulness in a stateless web environment. K Scott notes that .NET 4.0 will offer URL routing and greater control over ClientId generation so key areas of concern may soon be addressed, but it will take further framework improvement to provide greater control over the Webform abstraction layer.
  • Everyone agrees that Microsoft, vendors and community will provide components to pave the way to richer, easier to implement, ASP.NET MVC applications. Additionally, advancements will continue in the Webforms space.  Most notably, the guys assume there is bound to be a push towards a better Webforms testability story.
  • Kevin gives historical context to Webforms and why the abstraction model was revolutionary and arguably necessary. Knowing full well that hate mail is to come, Jon talks about using the “right” tool for the job and how he plans to continue to use Webforms where appropriate.
  • Jon and Joe summarize four big reasons why EVERY developer should learn MVC and Scott K asks what can be done with senior web developers who just don’t want to learn the new framework?  This leads into a conversation about honing one’s craft, mentorship, leading by example, and following through with supervision and code reviews.  
  • Now that ASP.NET MVC is in the picture, the group wrestles with what to call ASP.NET Webforms.  Classic ASP.NET is kind of catchy (and a little confusing.)
  • Jon and Joe talk about changes in Open Source – inside and outside of the Microsoft community – over the past six years. 
  • Scott K talks about the “promise” of being able to contribute to an open source project and asks about the managing patches – specifically on large open source projects.
  • The guys also dive into open source definition, licenses, legal considerations, protections around intellectual properties and implicit copyright on code.
  • The episode wraps up with a Joe providing a nice overview of DotNetNuke’s past, present and future.

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Herding Code 47: Joe Brinkman on Webforms vs ASP.NET MVC 

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Everybody makes mistakes. The trick is to learn from your own or, better yet, the mistakes of others!  This week, the guys amuse and educate by graciously sharing some of their past developer mistakes. 

  • Hear tales of recursive website spidering, rogue mass emailers, and hardware snafus which end in puffs of smoke
  • Learn from Jon that simulating nuclear fission on a Cray supercomputer can get wildly out of control
  • Find out why you should think twice before optimizing a relative’s computer on New Years’ Day
  • What’s the quickest way to realize the benefits of a Transaction Server?  Why listening to K Scott’s ATM story, of course.
  • Discover why you might want to rethink flying Kevin out to your company to perform any hardware magic (but if you need to reconstruct a FAT table, he’s your guy.)
  • And get the most sage advice ever offered by K Scott on Herding Code.

As a bonus, the Extended Lightning Round!

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Herding Code 46: Mistakes and News Recap 

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This week on Herding Code, Kevin leads a conversation with Javier Lozano on ASP.NET MVC and the Model View Controller (MVC), Model View Presenter (MVP), Model View ViewModel (MVVM) and Model Model View Controller (MMVC) patterns.

  • The guys discuss the various patterns as they relate to ASP.NET MVC, Silverlight and WPF and dig into the differences between ViewModels and Models.
  • Scott K brings up the question: “What’s the difference between MVC and MVP?” and then quotes Jeremy Miller in stating, “MVP denotes a stateful conversation between presenter and view whereas MVC is just linear.”
  • K Scott discusses the differences between building applications “the Rails way” and how you can build any type of application any way you want with ASP.NET MVC.
  • The group fields a question via Twitter from Steve Bohlen: "ask about the (relative) importance of persistence ignorance in the M in MVC."
  • The guys talk at length about action filters, custom model binders and object-object mapping.
  • And the show closes with Scott K reintroducing THE LIGHTNING ROUND!

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Herding Code 43: Javier Lozano on the M in MVC

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This week on Herding Code, Scott Bellware educates and entertain as only he can. Scott talks about Behavior Driven Development (BDD), Test Driven Development (TDD) and Lean Software Development, gets “all preachy” and donates to the show a nearly endless batch of outtakes. 

  • Hear the REAL last word about TDD.  You know it is more about design and little about testing, right?
  • True or false?  Scott Bellware practices BDD.  The answer will shock you!
  • Learn why you need let go of your inner geek and commit to being a business person.
  • Discover how Context Specification can help you get a date (or your money back.)
  • Pick up some catchy phases like “focal depth”, “theory of constraints”, “quality at the source”, “working forward” and “Docksiders.”
  • And much, much, much more.

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Episode 42: Scott Bellware on BDD and Lean Development

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This week on Herding Code, the full cast talks to Shawn Wildermuth about Silverlight 3 and RIA Services: 

  • Shawn talks about shared code, validation rules logic and general line of business application development with RIA Service and the guys become skeptically about RIA Service’s good and bad magic.
  • Kevin’s draggy-droppy spidey senses kick in and asks if RIA Services merely demos well.  Shawn speaks candidly about nobody knowing if RIA Services will work well in the wild (will it scale, for example) and encourages everyone to download and play with the bit and provide feedback. 
  • Scott K asks why he should even care about RIA Services, comments on how this is another example of building plumbing code frameworks in a vacuum, scoffs at Microsoft products like Silverlight, OSLO and Windows Workflow Foundation and goes so far to ask if is it too early for a RIA Service Vote of No Confidence.  In response, Shawn has some fun with Scott K and defends RIA Services along with some of the Microsoft development teams.  Shawn also shares his enthusiasm about OLSO.
  • Kevin questions Microsoft’s choice in terminology.  Does RIA Services really speak to what the framework does?
  • K Scott and Shawn briefly discuss the RIA Service’s TDD story and touch upon SilverUnit.
  • Jon and Shawn discuss their favorite new Silverlight features which include direct writing of pixels and audio, Silverlight out of browser, and behaviors.
  • The guys do a quick wrap up of Mix09 announcements and talk about Sketchflow’s designer focus and cynically talk about its unavailability.
  • To the delight of those on the call, Jon talks about Expression Web SuperrrPreeevieewww!
  • And there’s a special guest question from Rachel Appel and a Twitter question from Scott Watermasysk.

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Episode 40: Shawn Wildermuth on Silverlight 3 and RIA Services

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This week on Herding Code, Jon, K Scott, Scott K and Kevin talk about Mac/iPhone development with .NET and Ruby developer Scott C. Reynolds.

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Episode 39: Scott C. Reynolds on Mac and iPhone Development

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This week on Herding Code, Jon leads a talk with Microsoft Technical Evangelist Jon Udell, about strategies for Internet citizens. That is, making public information available for retrieval and manipulation through structured data feeds and Internet standards.  The group discusses related topics like digital identity and OpenID and shares their thoughts on Oslo, DSLs, dynamic languages like IronPython.

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Episode 37: Jon Udell

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This week Jon leads a discussion about our first impressions of Windows 7 Beta 1.

Topics
  • Previously bundled features are now distribued via Windows Live – good or bad?
  • Is the Windows Live suite just a standardized crapware?
  • Where’s our Photo Gallery?
  • Windows Marketplace???
  • Missing an ISO Mounter
  • The out of box experience
  • Window docking
  • Windows Explorer – side by side
  • Discoverability – shortcuts, etc.
  • “New features” that were already in Vista
  • New Wordpad and Paint with ribbons
  • Same old Notepad
  • Kevin’s underwhelmed with the updates to Paint
  • Could Windows Live Essentials include some friends, like Paint.NET?
  • Hey, a new calculator!
  • Problem Steps Recorder
  • Send Feedback
  • Nothing new for Remote Desktop?
  • Virtual Hard Drive support, but we want application virtualization
  • Multitouch
  • Distribution – why not via BitTorrent?
  • IE8 is still the same old IE8 that we know and meh
  • Windows Scenic Animation API
  • Looks like the API’s still all C++ and COM
  • The Vista Bridge project
  • The Ribbon control has graduated from an Office control to Windows
  • No WPF?
  • Jumplists

This is the second half of our interview with Phil Haack on the ASP.NET MVC Beta Release.

Topics

  • ModelBinders in ASP.NET MVC
  • Lessons learned in building MVC (question from Brian Henderson)
  • To what extent did the MVC team look at other frameworks like Monorail, Rails, Django, etc.
  • Any new features for the 1.0 release? How about 2.0?
  • What’s next for you after MVC ships?
  • How is the MVC team’s community-centered release style affecting other Microsoft teams?
  • Will MVC’s TDD focus affect other Microsoft frameworks?
  • Would MVC be a good fit for a RESTful service system
  • RESTful routing
  • What Visual Studio features can we expect
  • How has one year at Microsoft been for you?
  • Strongly typed ActionLink having been moved to MVC futures
Links

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Herding Code 24: Phil Haack on the ASP.NET MVC Beta Release (part 2)

This is the second half of our interview with Glenn Block. He talks about the interesting stuff he’s been up to at Microsoft with Prism, Unity, and MEF (the Managed Extensibility Framework). Be sure to listen to part 1 first or Glenn’s crazytalk about MEF will spin your head around.

Links:

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Episode 12: Glenn Block on Prism, Unity, and MEF (Part 2)

In this episode of Herding Code, we discuss the pro’s and con’s of building a startup on the Microsoft stack. We talk about a lot of issues:

  1. Licensing cost
  2. Availability and cost of developers
  3. Development environments and tools
  4. Relative costs of software vs. development time
  5. Thoughts on whether Microsoft should ship Visual Studio Express with Windows
  6. Those few companies who start on one stack and switch as they get larger
  7. How, in the end, it all comes down to execution

Along the way, K. Scott regales us with the tale of his run-in with the FBI, flees the podcast, and finds a way to sneak back on the call. Shenanigans!

Herding Code 7: Why don’t startups run on Microsoft? (Download)

My Podcast Alley feed! {pca-29d2d38db468bc87645363c074f2957c}

This week we argue discuss whether Silverlight is just another flavor of ActiveX, or if it’s here to stay.

Listen / Download

Herding Code 6: Silverlight – Fad Or Fab?

Show #5 – Topics

  1. Firefox 3… that’s it

Listen / Downlad

Herding Code 5: Firefox 3 Release

Announcements

The Name, The Feed, etc.

This is our last podcast hosting the audio on SkyDrive, I promise. I’d planned to take care of it last weekend and a family emergency… um… emerged. You can help! Please take our super quick survey to vote on a name for our podcast.

I’d hoped we could use SkyDrive to host the audio and set up a nice podcast feed on top of it via FeedBurner, but it turns out that SkyDrive doesn’t send the media type with MP3 enclosures in a way Feedburner expects, so that’s out. I’m looking into other hosting options, please comment in our survey if you’ve got any recommendations. We’ve been wanting to keep our costs down so we have the option of continuing long term without requiring sponsorship, but we’ll get our site set up for you for next week’s podcast. Honest.

The Audio

I think we finally nailed the audio this week. Thanks to Joe Pruitt and others for some great suggestions on how to set this up.

Show #4 – Topics

  1. iPhone v2 announcments from WWDC
  2. TechEd 2008 recap by our roving reporter, K. Scott Allen

Listen

Herding Code 4: iPhoneV2, K Scott recaps TechEd 2008

Announcements

The Name

We’re closing in on a name (and thus a domain and a website and a real podcast feed, etc.). Here’s our current list, please give us your feedback or alternate suggestions.

  • BytecodePodcast
  • Four Horsemen On Software
  • Four Horsemen Podcast
  • Technology Roundtable Podcast

The Audio

Audio quality’s a bit worse this week. We’re working on it – it’s harder than you’d think (you should have heard what the source audio files sounded like). Right now we use Skype for the call, but everyone records their own audio and I edit and clean it up. We use Call Graph as a backup in case someone’s audio recording doesn’t work. UPDATE: Fixed a problem with K Scott’s audio. Much better now.

The Hosting

So far we’ve been hosting the audio on SkyDrive. We’ve been planning to host it ourselves, but I’m wondering if SkyDrive’s hosting would be sufficient provided that we had a solid podcast RSS feed. This should only be a problem if you can’t access the files for some reason – it’s requiring a login, or blocked by your corporate network or something. Please let me know if you have problems with this episode so we can make an informed decision. Other alternatives we’ve considered are the Site5 Uberplan and Amazon S3. Got any input there?

Show #3 – Topics

  1. Should developers learn C?
  2. TechEd 2008 Keynote Announcements
  3. Microsoft “Velocity” distributed caching solution

Listen

Herding Code 3: Should Developers Learn C? + TechEd 2008 Keynote

Thanks for your patience (and great feedback) as we get our act together here. We’ve decided to make the content the top priority, and get the non-content details (feed, website, branding, etc.) next. Any suggestions for website address, podcast name, or any other ways we can improve?

Last week I posted the first in a new podcast series with K. Scott Allen (a.k.a. OdeToCode), Scott Koon (a.k.a. LazyCoder), and Kevin Dente. We got some great feedback, but we decided to ignore it and continue the podcast. So here’s another one!

But seriously, this one’s a lot shorter (too short?) and you’ll hopefully find the sound quality’s improved. We’ve also heard from several people that, while it’s easy for a group of geeks to criticize anything and everything, that doesn’t necessarily transfer into useful information.

Show #2 – Topics

  1. Google’s announcement that they’ll host several popular AJAX libraries
  2. ASP.NET AJAX
  3. AJAX Control Toolkit
  4. Misc. IE8 issues, including changes to how they’ll handle JavaScript loading

Download / Listen

Herding Code 2: AJAX Frameworks

We’re starting up a technology round table podcast. By we, I mean:

Our goal here is to provide you with some interesting discussions loosely centered around the world of development on the Microsoft platform. We’ve just finished our first show, and – while we’re aware that it’s not ready for prime-time, we’re looking for some alpha testers to give it a listen and give us some feedback.

Let’s start with our four known issues:

  1. It’s way too long – I edited this down to one hour, but our goal is to keep these in the 1/2 hour range.
  2. Audio levels – My voice is quieter than everyone else’s. Maybe that’s a good thing.
  3. We’re just getting used to the format – None of us has done a podcast before. I’ve edited out several awkward pauses and the like, but it’s not at all polished just yet.
  4. No branding – We’ll probably come up with some kind of catchy name, set up a website, and maybe include a 2 second musical bumper at the beginning. And maybe get a blimp and a mascot. But that’s all later.

So, you’re warned. Want to alpha test it and give us some feedback?

Show #1 – Topics

  1. .NET 3.5 SP1 Beta 1
  2. Entity Framework and OR/M’s in general
  3. Twitter-bashing (easy, but fun!)
  4. Ninject dependency injection framework

Download / Listen

Herding Code 1: .NET 3.5 SP1, Twitter, ORM\’s, Ninject

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