At NDC Oslo, Jon talked to Jon McCoy about .NET security and defensive patterns for building enterprise applications.
Download / Listen: Herding Code 215: Jon McCoy on .NET Security and Defensive Patterns
- Security Patterns
- (0:15) Jon Galloway (henceforth in this post JG) mentions the last time Jon McCoy was on the show and asks him about his talks this time around. This time, he and Topher Timzen did a hands on attack class followed by talks on defensive patterns for enterprise applications (video: Hacking .NET(C#) Application: Building and Breaking Layered Defense).
- (00:54) JG asks Jon if he showed off any scary hacks. Jon describes an attack in which they made an executable editable both on disk and in memory, then edited both the IL and assembly code to do things like inject direct database attacks (bypassing . He describes how that could be defended using enterprise defensible architecture by talking to databases through services which can implement security layers. The goal is to prevent an attack at one layer from moving through the rest of the enterprise.
- (1:59) JG says that often hears that major hacks occur by web application attacks that are then escalated to database attacks, often through password reuse. Jon says that’s true, since web applications are often deployed to the same server as a database or authentication server. He recommends using a service that’s locked to a single port, with security unit tests.
- (2:43) JG asks which patterns he’s describing are unique to .NET development. Jon says that he’s emphasizing patterns that are easy on .NET – for example, REST services are easy to implement on .NET as compared to C++. He’s advocating architectural changes that are relatively easy to implement in .NET applications provided you start with them early on (rather than trying to retrofit security later).
- A specific example: Protecting a medical record
- (3:33) JG asks for some specific examples. Jon says they talked about security unit tests and user stories and gives and example from his talk about a medical record that’s being sent through an enterprise securely. To do that, you’d need to encrypt it on an edge node, so the web server and database don’t have decrypted data or decryption keys. Instead, you use a key server on a segmented network. Because of this, at no point could a sysadmin have gotten access to the record because it was encrypted at all steps.
- "Above Admin"
- (4:49) JG points out that Jon is talking about preventing access to sensitive data by sysadmins. Jon says that you should consider your attackers to have more power than a sysadmin – they refer to attacker privileges as "above admin" because they’ve taken over your AD infrastructure, passwords on routers, dropping new firmware, etc.
- (5:50) JG refers to James Mickens’ keynote from the previous night (Herding Code interview here) and asks if there’s any hope. Jon says you need to plan, you need to minimize pivot points to prevent an attacker from moving between servers. He discusses potentially using static HTML that calls into secured REST services rather than web applications with direct database access, because building security around a REST service is much easier than securing a web application and web server.
- Mobile and desktop application security
- (9:03) JG asks about mobile application security, since he frequently hears about mobile apps that are supported by unsecured (or very poorly secured) backend services. Jon refers to Amazon and Twitter as examples of companies with published patterns for secured backend services.
- (9:52) JG asks if for some tips on how different systems on the network should be secured, referring to desktop applications. Jon says that each system should defend itself from the other systems, so in this case the other systems should assume that the desktops could be compromised, the desktop applications should assumed the database can be compromised, there needs to be thought about defending the outgoing APIs, etc. There needs to be a plan for how to take things down and respond.
- What do you wish you’d done?
- (10:35) As a thought exercise, assume that your database or web server has been compromised: what do you wish you’d have done? Do that for different pieces of your application architecture. Jon says that you can make it a fun exercise, pit dev teams against each other, etc. Security should be fun and easy if you’re doing it right.
- Wave 3D: A 3D operating system front end
- (12:07) JG asks Jon about the 3D operating system he’d mentioned before the call. Jon describes Wave 3D, a cross platform front-end to multiple operating systems (Windows, Mac, Linux, Android) that gives the same exact experience for all backend systems. It can be connected to Amazon, Google and Dropbox document storage.
- (12:56) Jon says it’s running on Mono and Unity and says it compares pretty well with 3D operating systems in the movies, and they’re looking at launching it via Kickstarter. It provides a simple, install-free environment with a document viewer, movie player and more on every platform instantly.
Note: This is our last podcast from NDC 2015.