Herding Code 51: Greg Young on Our Grand Failure – Thoughts on DDDD

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This week the guys talk to Greg Young about what he calls “our greatest failure”.

Greg talks about how we’ve failed our so completely that they now base their success on our always failing in the same way. He starts with your classic Hello World use-case, the common sex change
Greg talks about how we’ve forced our customers to work with data when they’re naturally behavior-centric
The problem with losing the historical record – we’ve lost the value of context and intent
Scott K asks about determining software behaviors by observing user behavior
Greg describes how Command Separation and the Event Sourcing pattern can help in solving this
K Scott asks about how this fits in with REST-ful architectures which are generally data-centric
Jon asks about the UI space efficiency of designing for behavioral interaction instead of data interaction
Some examples from HR: Jon likes to promote people, K Scott enjoys discussions of termination procedures
Kevin asks how what Greg’s proposing is different from task based UI’s we’ve already seen
Jon asks how to sell this to management, who sometimes doesn’t feel the need to share business process information with the software developers
Greg and K Scott talk about how data-centric style applications lose valuable context – educational tracking, shopping carts, medical records, and financial systems.
Scott K and Greg talk about how data-centric applications don’t handle histrory well. Greg points out that there’s a big difference between an event and a snapshot model.
Jon asks how we persist this kind of event information – do we need to move away from relational databases?
Greg talks about why the implementational details are less important than grasping the high level concepts.

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Herding Code 51: Greg Young on Our GRAND Failure – Thoughts on DDDD

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Jun 26

This entry was posted on Friday, June 26th, 2009 at 10:58 amand is filed under interview. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

5 Comments Herding Code 51: Greg Young on Our Grand Failure – Thoughts on DDDD

Matthew Hickson

July 3rd, 2009 at 6:20 pm

I suspect it’s already been said, but a transcript or more detailed summary of some kind would be an excellent addition to the podcasts here.

This was the first episode that I encountered and I found the subject matter immediately engaging, but don’t find myself with lots of time for podcasts.

In any event, keep up the good work!
Podcasts « thinkschematwo.com

July 3rd, 2009 at 6:45 pm

[...] In fact, I was inspired to write this post because I ran across Herding Code (specifically #51 – Greg Young on Our Grand Failure – Thoughts on DDDD). [...]
Steve Strong

July 15th, 2009 at 6:45 pm

I always listen to your podcast when I travel, I liked how this one started. CRUD design methodlogy as a forms over data is a design issue. I think designing for intent is right, but I believe a most of this can be covered by a rule system. Collecting events in a DB so you can datamine if objects were removed from that cart sounds like “dumb” information to collect. Rules could tell you that someone intended to empty the cart because they were outside there budget, it add something by mistake.
Greg Young

July 22nd, 2009 at 8:23 am

@Steve

What happens when your rules change over time and you want to see how the new rules would have affected your previously observed data? The problem you will run into is that you are losing information by just having the rules. Keeping the events allows things to be repeatable.

Greg
Elegant Code » CQRS à la Greg Young

November 15th, 2009 at 4:40 pm

[...] of behavior when explaining what they want to accomplish. Al do Greg thinks times have changed, “Our grand failure", but it should really be the case that our clients talk their own domain language. When using [...]