13 Comments Herding Code 69: Scott Bellware on HTML Specialists

1. Tweets that mention Herding Code 69: Scott Bellware on HTML Specialists | Herding Code -- Topsy.com

   January 22nd, 2010 at 1:19 am

   [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Jon Galloway, Scott Koon, ÜT L?ver ^tb, sam (jay) west, herdingcode and others. herdingcode said: [Herding Code]: Herding Code 69: Scott Bellware on HTML Specialists: This week on Herding Code, Scott Bellware ret… http://bit.ly/4vk1aH [...]

2. uberVU - social comments

   January 22nd, 2010 at 5:16 am

   Social comments and analytics for this post…

   This post was mentioned on Twitter by wardrobeguy: GEEK NEWS Herding Code 69: Scott Bellware on HTML Specialists http://bit.ly/4vk1aH...

3. John Petersen

   January 22nd, 2010 at 10:39 am

   

   Nice interview with Scott. When you have a lot of specialists, it tends to lead to silos – and that creates a big problem with hand off. In this day an age where there is no bright line between application areas, it is far better to have generalists who have one or two areas of concentration. That said, there are times that you may need a css, java script, or some other kind of ninja to help tackle a specific problem. So in that regard, we shouldn’t turn off to specialists as a per se rule.

4. Herding Code 69: Scott Bellware on HTML Specialists | Herding Code | Drakz Free Online Service

   January 22nd, 2010 at 3:23 pm

   [...] original here: Herding Code 69: Scott Bellware on HTML Specialists | Herding Code Share and [...]

5. Herding Code 69: Scott Bellware on HTML Specialists | Herding Code | Drakz Free Online Service

   January 22nd, 2010 at 7:41 pm

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6. GazNewt

   January 24th, 2010 at 3:43 pm

   

   I write and code and design/css without a problem. Yeah css is a bitch to learn but that’s all you have to do. In the time it takes to moan about css you could have learnt something!

7. Scott Bellware

   January 24th, 2010 at 10:38 pm

   

   GazNewt,

   That’s not exactly the message of the interview or the subject. The point is not learning HTML and CSS, something I have a pretty good proficiency with after doing it since installing Spy Glass off of a disk that came with O’Reily’s Best of the Web. The point is understanding and commanding productivity to a level rarely seen in software projects, something that requires understanding application markup. That understanding doesn’t come from doing HTML and CSS, but from optimizing software product development efforts.

8. Stan

   January 26th, 2010 at 6:54 am

   

   I enjoyed hearing Scott B’s insights. Good show. It’s something I haven’t thought about.

   K. Scott: I fell off my seat at the sexually deviant designer part.

9. Davy Landman

   January 27th, 2010 at 1:54 am

   

   I was actually struggling with the same problems on my team, we have a designer in the same room, but he has problems integrating with our development process. Even source control has been hard to sell.

   But I’m thinking about discussing a more hybrid approach to chunk up the work in small pieces to get the designer more involved and avoid the duplicate work.

   So thanks for the insights, was a interesting discussion :)

10. adam

    January 28th, 2010 at 7:35 am

    

    YES! So glad to hear this. CSS Nazis are running around unchecked.
    can i put this form in a table? No? YES. A form is a two-column table.
    The backlash starts here!!!

11. Mike

    February 2nd, 2010 at 2:09 am

    

    Did you really have to beat the horse? It’s been dead for years…

12. Isaac Lin

    February 4th, 2010 at 9:36 pm

    

    Though the points regarding integrating teams together are well-taken, I think there was an over emphasis on the specific example of web design. Most of the raised issues were not specific to HTML/CSS, but outsourcing a portion of the work and trying to force the work to occur within a specific time frame, instead of integrating it appropriately with other related work.

    Regarding “workability”, a good design agency should understand the different components of each web page, and build them as distinct parts, so that they can be dealt with in a mostly standalone fashion from the rest of the page.

    Comparing CSS to a procedural programming language is an apples-to-oranges comparison. CSS is a declarative language; you state the rules you want to enforce, and the browser applies them. Criticizing the complexity of the rules (and the cascade) is fair game, but comparing it to for statements that change their meaning seems inapt.

    The float property continues to have a place in web pages, not just print; however, its use to generate columns is problematic. The support offered by CSS3 for columns is a better approach and allows content to automatically flow from one column to another, something that cannot be done with tables.

    Lastly, note that the intent of CSS is to decouple the HTML source from how it is presented, which increases the amount of independence between the back-end code generating the HTML and the visual design. Though it doesn’t fully achieve this goal, certainly compared with a mass of nested tables, it is much simpler to make changes to the HTML generation or the layout.

13. Twitted by o_k

    February 17th, 2010 at 5:38 am

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